The What! podcast

The podcast for Bonnaroovians by Bonnaroovians

Bonnaroovian A, Barry Courter, Bonnaroovian B, Brad Steiner, and this is our taco

Nice shirt, taco

Thank you

How's it feeling? How's it fit?

Oh, it fits great. It's a great shirt

You never felt sexier, have you?

Never

Yeah, we're not great

Hang on

There we go

Now you feel even better

The man, you know, I think that you could dress in PBR cans and feel comfortable

Yeah, I would feel pretty good in that

Well, welcome to a secret podcast, a secret show

Off-cycle, out of season, how's life Barry Courter?

Let's do some pleasantries around the room

How are you?

Life is pretty good, but I got to be honest now that you ask it that way

The reason I'm wearing the hat got some very sad news here in our fine city

Your toupee fell off

You finally lost your toupee

My toupee fell off

And it's down its way to your mouth

It's eating my face

It's so funny, I determined before we signed on that I was not going to be the voice of doom and gloom anymore

And then I lead with that

But everything else is good

It's supposed to be a happy episode

It's going to be a happy episode

I'm ready to move forward, so everything's good

Well, first off, it's a happy episode because I am living my best Lord Taku life

Atta baby

Got the 16 too

I got tall boys as well

I'm telling you, we're getting very close to RooHamm territory with our beer drinking

We're going to have like a PBR versus ham fight at some point

I don't think I'm okay with that

I wish I was speaking of which Parker

Yeah, Parker said he's going to send me some hams for my birthday

Nice

Taku, you're going to hate it

You don't like anything that's not PBR

You won't drink a juice box much less

Something that's not PBR

Yeah, water, milk

I don't know, I've never had it

I'll give it a fair take

What, water?

Never had water

I'm very interested to hear your impression

My memory, and it's been forever since I've had it

I don't think it's that much different than PBR

So I'm very anxious to hear what you say

Maybe a little sweeter

But it's been a long time

Just like you

Exactly

Oh, look at this

See, it's all positive

See?

What's the bad news, BC?

Songbirds

Explain

Because not everybody lives in the giant metropolis

That is the 100,000 population of Chattanooga, Tennessee

Sorry, sorry, sorry

The hat that I'm wearing, Songbirds Guitar Museum

Which is the world's largest collection of rare and vintage guitars

Here in Chattanooga has...

Oh my...

What the...

The world is calling me

Very popular

Songbirds is closed, and it's such a cool place

The connection to us, not just Chattanooga, AC Entertainment

Sort of helped look at it because of connections with Mike Dewar, our friend

Camp Nut Buttermate

Those sorts of connections

Chattanooga, we're only an hour and a half away from Knoxville

There is that connection

Brad, you've been there, obviously, Taco

I think you guys saw Turquoise, right?

Just before you left town, Brad, right?

That was the last show

We sure did

We will never see

The last real show

Yeah, so there is the Bonnaroo connection

I'm not pulling it out of nowhere

But it's closing its doors

I announced it in the paper on Wednesday

It's sad because of what it says

It's a huge loss for the city, but it's a great venue

And anybody who's been through this area

We've had a couple of our guests on who said they made the loop down on their way to Bonnaroo to see it

So that's why I mentioned it

It's not a totally out of nowhere mention

I think that the reason why it's important is that it's so indicative of just where we are

And how hard it is for these really interesting, thoughtful, wonderful places

That mean a lot to the overall zeitgeist and the overall colorful palette and the quilt that has been knitted

It's tough to see something like this go

And it's indicative of the rest of the industry

Not only is it a guitar museum, but downstairs it's a performance hall

Sorry to interrupt, but even upstairs, yeah, the north and south is venues

And just to add on, I just saw it yesterday, Emmy Sunshine, who was our last guest or guest before, I guess

She shared my story and made some very nice comments

I think she played there, what, a month ago?

So that's why I mentioned it

It's not like, you know, it's totally out of the way

Go ahead, because you're exactly right, it is very indicative

You've got a downstairs room that is, you know, to me, my favorite type of room, 250, 500 max

Everything feels really intimate and it barely makes any money

You know, it's sort of like the exit in, you get this tiny, tiny ability to have a margin

And when all of that goes away, you're not going to be making, you know, enough money off of a guitar museum in the middle of COVID

So how do you keep the doors open?

You know, we have a tea shop in Chattanooga, the wife owns a tea shop

And she said something so interesting after I told her Songbirds was closed

She said, I bet their lease was coming up

And I said, I don't know

Well, if my lease was coming up, I wouldn't be re-signing anything right now

Right. She's right, she's 100% right

I can't imagine how many more people that's, this is going to be the story, you know

And once we start seeing the Songbirds as a small, small, small, tiny little, you know, thing in the overall spectrum

But the exit in, things like the exit in start falling

Then what happens to the Metro in Chicago?

You know, the Metro in Chicago, one of the most iconic venues in the country is just, it's on the way

The Tabernacle in Atlanta, these things are just going to keep falling if something doesn't change

Yeah, and connect more dots

I mean, Chris Cobb, a guest on our show several weeks ago, owner of Exit In, is good friends with Mike Doer, the guys at AC Entertainment

They all share stories, and that's why it's so key

Now, to that point, before you go any further to that point, you've got the Chris Cobbs of the world that run Nashville's Exit In

He also had something to do with the bigger venue in Chattanooga, which is called The Signal, which is about a thousand capitals

You're right, 1500, 1600, well, it could be

Is there any sort of chatter in town about Signal closing as well?

There is not, he is, and Chris is no longer involved, he sold his interest in that, but he was involved when it opened

I have not heard, I do know that our friend Tara, another Camp Nutbutter who was managing it, I don't think is involved anymore

I think she took another job about, what, a month ago

Yeah, well the reason I ask

Are you folks living on the other side of the country, these are names that mean nothing to you, but it's this ripple effect

Yeah, the reason I ask is you've got, if Chattanooga is going to start shutting its doors, Chattanooga is as small as it gets

Small big town

Yeah, those small towns are going to be the first ones that start going, and they're probably going to be the start of the tsunami if there's ever going to be one

I guess that's why I ask, because if a 1500 seat venue in Chattanooga, Tennessee is gone, boy, who's next?

It depends, and yeah, again, I'm trying to be positive, but now the Songbirds announcement in our world

Not just this, you know, in Chattanooga, but in this part of the country was massive because nobody thought it would close

It had strong backing, and it was all the momentum, and it's a cool place, and on and on and on

Hey look, Chattanooga has two music venues, New Orleans has 50

Yeah, sure. Is the maple leaf, or the white maple, or whatever the hell it's called, is that going to survive? Is Tipitina's?

I mean, Tipitina's has straight up said that we have until October 1 before we got to make a really hard decision

And Tipitina's being closed, if something happens to that legendary venue, it feels like part of the soul, the city's going to be ripped away

So, you know, it's tough to think about, so thanks for ruining my day, Barry

I know, right? There goes the positive, I feel like I need a hood and a scythe, I mean, that's all I do

This week was bad, I mean, we had three local festivals announced, they were either canceling or going virtual this week that I wrote about

So it just was a really, really rough week

Just to tie it back into the podcast, we did an episode from Songbirds, remember we interviewed Drew Holcomb?

Yeah, Drew and Brad from AC

What was so great about that, it was a great venue, it was a great chat, but it was the worst audio we've ever had

So it really wasn't even

Yeah, we're not going to link back to that, are we?

It was sort of like our own private show

So, speaking of virtual festivals, did you do any of the Lollapalooza virtual festivals or any of that kind of stuff?

No, I haven't really done much of that

The one I wish I had, because the reviews I've read and you went on and on and on about it, was the one down there, New Orleans, Jazz Fest

Yeah, but it wasn't a virtual one, it was just like, it was just listening to it on the radio

Right, but it sounds so cool

It was really well done

So the Lollapalooza thing seemed to go really well, the C3 people were very happy with it

You know, I can't imagine these things working for the long run

We did a drive-in show, also C3 put on with Revivalist

And surprisingly, with somebody who was such a negative Nancy about these drive-in shows, it really worked

It sort of worked

Now, again, these things work because they're in a vacuum

You know, the only thing that's going on, so anything that happens seems to be great

But it worked

And you had a pretty good moment at the end, right?

Didn't you have a?

Oh yeah, I forgot all about that

Did you have a little moment?

Yeah, alright, so we did the drive-in show, let me just walk you through how the drive-in show works

Everybody gets a parking space that is two parking spaces away from the next person in your row

And what you get on one side of your parking space is an entire other parking space that you can tailgate at

And then there's a parking space in between you and then the next car

And so they do this 50 rows back, so you're not close

It's not like you're up close and personal and feeling very intimate, but you're outside

You get to see other people, and here's the best part

They had signs in every one of the pods for merchandise, etc. that you could scan a QR code

And the guy would bike the merchandise in a bag over to you and deliver it to you to your car

Now expand that for a second, imagine how you can do that with food delivery at one of these drive-in shows

There's actually a chance here for this to turn into something that works

Now here's the problem

Sounds like, was there a car hop in the 50s or something like that?

Yeah

Okay, go ahead, sorry

It's sort of like a sonic

So two other things

One, every row came with its own row of bathrooms, its own reporter pod

Every row had a person spraying down and hosing it down and wiping every one of the bathrooms down after somebody used it

I thought that was just over the top grade

And then so the best part is you've got, you can tune into the radio and all that kind of stuff

But you did the math, there's 500 cars and it was a hundred bucks a piece

So do the math, tell me how much

Per person or per car?

Per car

And you can get as many people legally into the car as you could get

So what's a hundred times 500? Barry, you're the math major here

More than two, I don't know, I'm not gonna say

So as many people as you can fit into the car?

You can legally put into the car

I can bring a lot of people in the bus

Yeah, and that would have been fine

Legally

Legally, yeah

Yes, so the point that I'm making is that you take the amount of money that you pay for a ticket, multiply it by how many tickets are sold

And split it in half and that's basically what costs you to run the event

The rest of it is probably for the band, so production costs, security, space rental, that's probably half of it

The other half is probably going to the band

It's not a good payday, it's not the best payday for say the revivalists, but it's something

And forgive me for asking, but the one you went to, the revivalists were there live

This wasn't a thing like Garth Brooks did where it was broadcast to several, right?

Right

Okay, okay

So you put, if it's $50,000 split in half, you get 25 to 30k production, etc.

And then the rest goes to the band, 20 grand, it's a good payday

And it's not the best, but it's good

Now with that being said, I bring the math up because it ain't going to work for Tool

You know, the math's not going to work for Alabama Shakes

But it could possibly work for Brittany Howard

25k to 30k, maybe if you bill it correctly, like for instance the two weeks before that was Tank of the Bangas

The week after that was Galactic, Tank of the Bangas not costing you 25k

Galactic not costing you 25k

But revivalists do, you could probably make the math work and pay somebody 50 grand

Over the course of a six week drive-in show

And they did all of this without any sponsors

Not one sponsor, it was all just based on ticket price

So possibilities are there, it could work, it could monetarily work

Now is it going to work on the long term because people's desire for a show is going to get, desire for a show to be better

Than just being 120 yards away

They're going to want a better experience at some point

But for the short term, I can see these things working

I totally agree, and I, the money is going to be, I mean going back to our conversation with Jeff

Becker, the entertainment attorney, who by the way, congratulations

Got named to what, every top ten entertainment lawyer list around, right?

Rolling Stone, what did Taco?

Yeah, I think it was Rolling Stone and we retreated that

Oh yeah, yeah

How did you know that?

Entertainment wire

Really, you have him on like some sort of Google alert on your phone?

How did you find that out?

I probably, Taco shared it

No, kid

But then I saw it come through the AP wire, you know, through the paper, so

How about that?

Yeah, good for him

We follow him on Twitter and he retweeted it, so, you know

Yeah, so good for him

Yeah, okay

I forgot where I was going

Oh, but he was saying, I was saying the money's going to be reconfigured

My prediction, and this is just my prediction, is this is what we're going to see

There might be pretty soon where we see the big time names in some venue that you never imagined

By the way, I love how Barry just made a prediction that something's going to happen

That has already happened

Okay, well it's safe

No, I'm talking, well

I predict, I predict we're going to do a podcast today

It's my prediction

You're in New Orleans, I'm talking about even smaller places where we're seeing acts doing acoustic sets

Or, you know, they're not going to be the full blown stage shows like we're used to

You talk about Tool, you know, maybe not, but

It's not going to work for Cardi B

No, probably not

I mean, there will be some where it will not work, absolutely

And to your point, not only is it financially not going to work, but also, you know, these things have got to be, you know, regional and have the band with you

And you're not going to be able to transport 35 people

That's the other part of where I was going is a lot, some of these, the artist is doing it so their crew can get paid

You know what I mean?

Yeah

I know that's happening

One of the first shows that we saw here in Chattanooga was Strong Like a Horse

And that's the reason they did it so that the guys around them could get paid

That was back in March

But I think that's what we'll see

Yeah

You know, it's not just the singer that's at home, you know, it's the guy driving the truck

Yeah

All right, so the other thing that we wanted to pop on and do today is Leak A Song

The big news is that we got a copy of a song that I'm really proud of

And we get to debut a song to the world that no one's ever heard by a band that, you know, it's an up and comer who could be the next big thing

You never know

But friend of the show, Repeat Repeat have a brand new song and we get to debut it to the world on this podcast

And you guys haven't even heard it

Taco and Barry haven't even heard it

Nope

Yeah, so I broke the rules and I stole one of their songs and I'm bringing it to the podcast so that you guys can hear what they've been working on

Based on their new album that is currently in development

But yeah, I'm breaking the rules and betraying their friendship because I think that you guys deserve to hear the next big album

Oh, hello

Oh, what happened? What was that?

That was Jared. He was attacking me

He took me down

He's trying to keep you from leaking the song

Yeah

Anything to keep from leaking the song, yeah

So I was hoping we could play it right now on the show and get you guys' initial reaction to it and see what you think

Let me open a PBR first

That was not the song

That was not it

That was music to my ears

Okay

Full life

Cheesy dad joke is so good

So good

Let's play

So the name of the song is Wind in My Sales and it's going to be released on August 28th I hear

And so we get it absolutely first

That's my birthday

Wow, happy birthday to you

Happy birthday to you

And you never even told the story I was trying to get you to tell about the revival

Oh, that's right

I forgot about the back part of that story

Yeah, I didn't care about any of that other stuff

So we get done with the show and I look around and behind us is a car full of kids and one of which has a Bonnaroo Crew shirt on

A Crew 2017 shirt

So I run up to him like, hey dude, nice shirt, I love this shirt

He's like, oh man, yeah, I was part of the crew a couple years ago

He's like, yeah, where'd you volunteer?

And we started talking about the volunteer thing, like that's so awesome

And some other friends of his came over and started talking Bonnaroo, et cetera

And at one point the girl, and I so apologize that I can't remember her name, but she cocked her head and she goes, are you Brad?

And I said, yeah, but I've already told you that

She goes, the podcast, I listen to the podcast

And then that became the domino to the next person

And he said, and God, I feel so bad I forgot his name too

He goes, oh my God, I love the podcast so much and hugged me

In the middle of a pandemic

Now why is that funny to you guys?

Well, lots of reasons

You wouldn't even hug somebody on a good day

That's exactly right

So I had to hug him and I had to hug her

And they were big fans of the podcast

So I couldn't have been, it was totally weird

It was a very weird thing

I've been in New Orleans and been on the radio in the city for five months

I've had more people talk to me about the podcast than my radio station

Which is very strange

Nobody cares about sports and weather anymore

Okay, sports and weather, yeah

So there you go, yeah, very odd thing

You can find podcast listeners everywhere

That's how weird this whole thing has become

So yeah, there you go

Are you gonna shut up now so we can play the song?

I was just Biden time, my friend

Just Biden my time

This is Wind In My Sails from Repeat Repeat

Okay

Come back, you're giving me fiction

When I give you fact

It's putting me out and taking nothing back

I'll go in love

You lose your pride

I feel like we're stuck on this amusement ride

The picture was clear and now my eyes are wide

You sink my heart like a stone

Flowing on my own

You're so left to agree

Let's just be honest

You're taking me away from this world

Now that I see

Everything's better

Nobody questioned me

To change

I read all your stories and I turn the page

You go out to smoke when I get up on stage

Got nothing to say

Stormy seas

I'm not really asking for your expertise

While you keep on clapping on the ones and threes

I'll go my way

You won't save the day

You don't have to be me

Just be an honest

You're taking me away from this sail

Now that I see

Everything's better

Nobody questioned me

I'm surprised

I'm watching you roll over your eyes

A part of me always dies

We don't have to agree

You'll be whatever it won't get the better of me

I'm on the farm

I like to play banjo on the farm

Who doesn't?

I'm on the farm

I like to play banjo on the farm

Who doesn't?

I saw you in Camp Nut Butter

And what goes better with camping

Than playing a little banjo for boys

This is how I think you've misread Camp Nut Butter

The thing that goes best with Camp Nut Butter is hair product

Now it's moonshine actually

It is moonshine

I did it again

You made a tripod

I know

You have no idea

Brad has been grandpa today

It's been a disaster

It's been a total

What's exciting is this is the world premiere of Wind in My Sails

And the first time ever a song has debuted on a podcast

Thank you

Thank you for doing it

The song comes out technically August 28th

That's my birthday

Happy birthday

That's an amazing present

Thank you for releasing that on my birthday

I hope you weren't hoping that this was going to be in any way about you today

Because between the two of them

The song is not even

The first one sings mainly on it

We are putting out two songs that day

The second is a cover song from the 60s

It's in a Tarantino movie that we really like

Really?

Yeah, it's a weird time in the world

So we were just like

We were kind of like screw it

Let's start working on some music

We knew this year was going to be a chill year for us

We were going to kind of lay low anyway

And just start writing again

And working on the next record

And it just felt like time to put something out in the world

It's been about a year since Glaze has come out

But we're sitting on about 22 songs right now

Jesus

So this is just a little

Almost as many pets as you have

It's almost, yes

That's true

So it's just a little appetizer in the interim

Before we decide when we want to put out a whole record

And stuff like that

The song is unique in that you sort of

Like Kristen sort of take over with the vocals

Yeah, well the truth is

I've actually, I've wanted her to sing more leads forever

And also like half the

Well, I'd say more than half the bands we love

Have girl lead singers in them

Like one of our favorite bands is a band called Always

And it's like a girl singer in it and stuff

And so that's like definitely our style

And so, but she'd be very shy

And so she just kind of

She would always want to

Whenever like the mixing process

The last two records we put out

She'd always be like

Can you mix me a little more down in the mix?

And at some point we'd be like

I can't even hear you

She's like, that means I sound weird

Man, Barry's been trying to run that on me for years

I was really glad to hear Brad tell you that though

Because I was just thinking before we came on

Our first conversation at Camp Nut Butter

That was part of it was

Kristen was not overly reluctant

But you kind of had to talk her into being part of it, right?

And then the last time we talked

I didn't know that

She was way more

Yeah, you don't remember that?

She was sort of reluctantly

And then the last time we talked

And she was like

Yeah, I don't have a problem expressing my opinion anymore

And now with this she's right out front

So it's fun to see that progression

Yeah, well I think the world just changed so much this last year

And our perspective has changed so much

And just like, you know, when you take away

As like an indie artist

When you take away touring

And you take away festivals

And any element of human interaction

Outside of her and I

It's like, you realize

It really brings you back to the focus of

Why are we doing this music?

You know what I mean?

Especially at our level

I mean, if you're huge

You can put out a record now

Hopefully it does well and whatever

And not have to tour or anything like that

But at our level it's like

Are we doing this because we love it?

Are we doing it?

You get in the cycle of like

You tour and you come home for a few months

You make a record

You put the record out

Then you go tour again

And you just do it constantly

And it's really easy to like forget

Why you want to do it

It's easy to forget that sometimes

It's okay to like take your time

To make art

Like because the industry

Just the commerce of all of it

Is kind of like

I mean literally the CEO of Spotify

Just the other day was like

If you think you can just put out a record

Every couple of years

And get by doing that

But that kind of like denigrates

A lot of the idea of art in the first place

It's like why can't you take time

To create something that you feel really proud of?

And if it takes a day

It's like Paul McCartney made a record

With one of his bands

They said to make it in a weekend

If you can do that, that's great

But not always does that happen

So the last record we made in 20 days

With Patrick and this record we were like

Take, let's take as long as we want

And just make the record we would want to make

And not care about the algorithm

Or if it gets on radio

Or whatever like we have to

If the world ends in a year

Like we want to die knowing that

Are the last music we made

We loved ourselves, you know what I mean?

Not that we didn't love the old stuff

But there was certainly a mixture of

The commerce in that

Are we writing this?

Is this going to be good for radio?

Is this going to be good for play listing?

And now we're just

At least for this record we're making

What we want to make 100% good or bad

So with that being said

That kind of changed Kristin's mindset too

Because she's like we have nothing to lose

So let's say whatever we want

And let's try new things and all that

And that was part of it

And honestly it feels a little weird

Because I think for the last couple of records

People have been like

People always come up to me like

You should let Kristin sing more

And I'm like yeah I'm not like over here being like

Oh you know what I mean?

There was this one time

I'll never forget this one time

I was in the studio with Jared and Kristin

And they started a song

Jared walked over and slapped the microphone

Right out of her hands

He was so angry

He was like get out of the store

I hear that a lot too Jared

Yeah I bet

You should get Brad to stop talking so much

Yeah

Yeah

You know I

I hope to hear her on many more songs

And frankly on the next record

Absolutely

She's singing lead on like probably half of it

So it's really exciting

We're trying new things

And we have the time to just be at home

And in our studio

And also it's been fun for me

Because I get to try new things

So like on the track that you guys just played

I sang the backups

And so that's kind of a new world for me in a lot of ways

And we were trying to go for like Beach Boys-y harmonies and stuff

And I was like

So I've been looking up

How did you know Brian Wilson get a lot of his harmonies and stuff on Beach Boys

And I read something that was like

Two secrets

One he made all the men sing falsetto

And mixed it in the background

And two I think they said like child abuse or something like that

So one of the secrets to Brian Wilson's signature sound was

You know what I mean

Like having a child

No part did you attack first

Did you go with the child abuse?

And a terrible childhood

Well I can sing falsetto

And I can have skeletons or something

He also had his brother Carl so that helps

Exactly yeah

It sounds like

It sounds like Kristen had a lot of fun with it too though

You know it wasn't just

I mean it really sounded like she enjoyed doing it

Yeah yeah that's

And as we've been doing more of these songs she's gotten

She's definitely like learned to embrace that too

I don't know man like

Russell are you married?

Not anymore

Only in PBR

Yeah

Yeah okay so like

There's this thing

I mean I think we can all relate to this

Because we all have partners

Is like

There's something with like

Kristen beats up on herself sometimes like as an artist

She'll be like I'm not

They like downplay it sometimes

And like I don't know

It was like kind of getting around that

Like at one point she had like her

Her sister came up to her

We were like playing

I mean we played arenas

Like at one point I was like

We played like arenas with the Black Keys and Modest Mouths

Like you're definitely

She'd be like I'm not that good of a singer or whatever

And her sister at one point was like

You need to stop saying that you're not a singer like

Embrace it like you know be proud of it

Yeah but

But I think

And you might agree

But if you don't that's fine

But it would almost feel like an arena is even easier

Than sitting in a studio or at the house

It feels so much more vulnerable than an arena

Where you look out and you see just blackness

Well I definitely think the studio part you're right about

As far as the house part

I think that's what helped us

Kind of get into a different creative mindset

We've always made records in the studio with producers

And that element is really cool and exciting

And it's nice to have somebody else's ear

But you're on their time

A lot of times you're on their property

And you're on somebody else's dime and stuff like that

So there's an element of like if you wanted to

You know if you're not getting a take

And you want to come back in a few hours

And have a few drinks

And be a little like you know tipsy

And see if you can loosen up a bit

You don't feel sometimes like you have that creative ability too

Because you're dealing with other professionals

And you don't want to come off as unprofessional

And that's probably more of a personal thing

Than like I'm sure like if Patrick

I'm sure if we were like

Patrick can we get drunk and then take this song

He would be like fine

But I mean I think it's a personal thing

You don't want to seem like you're being unprofessional

On somebody else's time

So here what was nice is we could try

We could be like we're not getting this take

Let's try it in the morning over coffee

Or just sitting in pajamas on the couch

And like holding the mic you know

And sometimes when you're in a studio

It can be kind of like sterile

You know you're like in a booth

You're like literally in a vocal booth

And you have five people standing

You know you've got the label person behind the board

Looking at you like this

And you got like the producer

And he's sitting there he's listening

And it's just it can be a very like

To somebody who hasn't done it all their life

Like I threw Kristin into this environment

Like when we met so

I think she's able to feel more comfortable

Just doing it at home

Like I can just be like

Hold this mic

Have this coffee

Here's a cat

Now sing this track

Here's a cat

I'm drunk on Kitty

National Cat Day by the way

Jed you see last time we talked

You kind of said you learned so much

From that last album about how to produce

And so I mean it sounds like

Everything you're just saying sort of

Further emphasizes all that

You've learned so much

And now you're to this point

And when you were talking earlier about

And I actually want to ask all three of you

That the whole idea of

It's such a weird time

That everybody's kind of rethinking

Why are we doing this?

You know there are no rules

You can do whatever you want to do kind of thing

That has to be sort of freeing right?

I mean isn't that what we're talking about?

Is that basically the essence of it all?

Do what feels right

Yeah it's also terrifying

Because it's like

We came back from the Keys Tour

And started the new year

I mean we had a couple festivals

And some shows booked and stuff

But for the most part

We were going to kind of lay low

And we were like

When everything got canceled

You know and all of that

We realized like

It just felt very scary

Like I realized I've spent 25 years of my life

Just doing music

And if the music industry completely collapsed

I was like I don't have really any other skills

Like I put everything into this

Like I never planned a fallback plan

Kind of on purpose you know?

Like I read something recently that was like

The worst thing you can do is have a fallback plan

Because you'll fall back on it

You know what I mean?

It's like if you jump in with both feet

Like part of that fear of falling off the cliff

Keeps you going right?

And so that was kind of terrifying

And I realized I wanted to try to learn some new skills

I realized I didn't really have any skills

I was like what am I good at besides music?

And so I picked three things

I picked producing

Because I realized like

I've spent more time in studios

Than I have in college

Like I've spent 10 years in studios

Like recording albums and stuff

With different bands and stuff

I spent four years in college

So it's like I have more experience doing that

And I know stuff just by proxy and asking questions

And I have so many producer friends

And then the other two skills I want to learn was

Woodworking and tattooing

Amateur tattooing

Amateur tattooing

This is just for him to save money

So he can give himself tattoos

It's all true

Because then I'm like I can work on my house

And then I don't have to pay for tattoos

Honestly I think like if we were all

By the way, why couldn't you just do veterinary skills?

Just learn to be a vet

Because you're spending more money on vet bills

Than you are anything

That's true

Like if we were all art guys

We would all just get really good amateur automobile repair

And dentistry

Think of how much money we would save

Amateur dentistry

Yes

That's what I want on my business card

Amateur dentist

That's what I was getting ready to say

Here's my pro tip Jared

I wouldn't put amateur tattooing or amateur dentistry

On your card or your sign or anything

I'd leave amateur out of it

Well I realized that out of that

The woodworking and the tattooing just became a hobby

Which frankly I'm sure you guys being in this industry

And stuff like

If you find something you're really passionate about

And you do that

Like Brad, you with radio and stuff

It's like at some point that becomes your career

And then it's not a hobby

You still love it and you're passionate about it

But now you need a new hobby

Because that's not your hobby anymore, right?

It's the thing that pays the bills

So I realized through that

The woodworking and the tattooing is just a hobby

One because I don't want to pursue that career wise

But two I'm not that good at it yet

So the producers stuff

I can get myself lost in it

And we just

It has allowed us to really feel like

I feel like I'm learning stuff

I'm asking questions

I'm watching tutorials

I'm reading books on it and stuff like that

And so

And all my favorite producers

They all like

Their whole thing is like

We have no idea what we're doing

We're just making it up as we go

There's a couple rules to follow

And everything else is you just try stuff constantly

Until something's

Yeah, well

As long as you're mastering the ink blot tattoo

I think you're going to be pretty good

At the amateur tattoo job

I get myself this shark fin on my pinky

Okay

Oh wow

Okay

And it's not even upside down

That's impressive

I know

I know

Pretty good

When I go on Google

I'm thinking I want a tattoo

I'm going to go find an amateur tattoo

Yeah

Let me find the guy that just started

Yeah

First day on the job

Yeah

All my idiot friends were like

Because I realized

Because tattoo artists

They're all kind of insular

They all hang out together

When you think of tattoo artists

You think of guys that are like

Covered in tats

They wear all black

And they go to like motorcycle rallies, right?

Or they go to like heavy metal shows or something, right?

You don't know a lot of dudes that are just like

You know

That are just like

Oh, yeah

I play like wispy indie rock music

And like, you know

I like to drink IPAs

And I'm a tattoo artist

I don't know

All my idiot friends

Boy, Jared

That sounds like every tattoo guy in me

I don't know

We're like

You got a tattoo gun?

Oh, man

I will get a tattoo from you

I think they're all cheap skits too

Because they're like

If it's free, man

I'll get a tattoo from you

So

Right, Jared

My point to this is

This is the exact same way

And how like getting your haircut from friends started

You know

I was like

Yeah, I can do that

Sure, that's fine

And then everybody's now cutting hair

There's a huge difference though

That hair is gonna grow back

Yeah

Well, I got my first haircut like since COVID started

So it's been almost a year since I had a haircut

Like a real one

And like I gave myself haircuts

And Kristen gave me

And the haircutting guy that was cutting my hair

He was the barber

He was like

He did that thing that people do when they're like

Being nice about something that obviously is terrible

So he's like

He's like

Look at my hair

He's like

So do you like

Do you like your hairstyle to be like longer on one side

And shorter on another side

Or whatever

I'm like

You mean like

Look like crap?

No

I don't like that

You mean do I like cutting it with like a beard trimmer

That I use in the bathroom?

No

I don't like that

That's just what I do

Yeah

I'm looking for the at-home haircut look

Can you give me that, Mr. Professional Barber?

Yeah

Do you really like terrible hairstyles?

Is that your thing just before I start cutting it or whatever?

I'm like no

Is it gonna matter what this looks like afterwards?

Because if so, I'm your guy

It's the I hate my parents look

That's what I'm going for

Yeah

Yeah, we call that the Hitler Youth Cut

The Hitler Youth Cut

Alright, so what about the new album?

If you've got some things coming out in the 28th

That means you're obviously working towards

You know, paring these down from 22 to something

How does that process go?

How do you go from 22 to 12?

I don't know

We, so many things are in the air

I mean we, our whole motto right now is to not force it and not rush it

You know what I mean?

So these two songs were gonna come out a few months ago

And then some things happened

We got with new management and talking to some people and whatever

And we just were like let's just wait a minute

Let's just wait and put it out later

And I'm glad we did

Because then we waited

And then we were gonna put it out like three weeks ago I think

And then we were like nope, let's wait a few more weeks

And we'll put it out

Just because we were still figuring out if we were gonna put it out with this thing or that thing

And getting some content ready or whatever

And we would have put it out the day that Taylor Swift's record come out

And we don't wanna, we don't wanna interfere with, you know what I mean?

I know Brad knows about it

Hey Jared, I'm gonna, I still think your stuff is better

Well thank you

That's first

So these songs are coming out just because we want something for our fans and our friends to have like in the interim

While we're figuring out what we wanna do next

But I don't know

Well I'll tell you what I like about it is

Not just that it's a little bit different because Kristen's taking lead on it

But it still feels like you guys

What I like the most about it is that it's not, you know, wrapped up in this COVID sort of thing

Where everybody's gotta write a song about quarantine

Where everybody's gotta have a song that's, you know, ties back to the zeitgeist of the moment

I'm already tired of that

I'm already over it

I don't need anything more

That was Kristen's big thing

She was like I don't wanna write a quarantine song no matter what

That's a good thing

Yeah

So when we're writing lyrics we're like we'll be like yeah she'll be like

That sounds a little too like quarantine

Like low hanging fruit she said

Low hanging fruit

Hey Jared, Jared, can I read you some feedback because we played this live on YouTube

And Dan Sweeney, one of our Patreons is listening

He said this makes me feel like I want to lay out in the what field and close my eyes sipping a PBR

That's what he said about Wind in My Sail, the song we played

That's awesome

Well that's like that's the perfect

That's the other thing too is like we wanted to make stuff

Man, the record's all over the place too because we like wait

It's funny there are songs where you can tell we draw from our influences

Like our really like chill influences

Our Mac DeMarco influences

There's songs where we're drawing from our like Fiblar and Brancho influences

There's rock and there's like chill and there's like all this stuff

And so we are just kind of like throwing everything out the window

We're like we don't know what's going to happen next

We want to put out like a double album

And it's crazy because in our mind it's like we have these songs

I don't want to like sit on them for years because we put out

Because the industry says put out 10 or 12

It's like let's put them all out when we're ready

And then I'll write it, we'll write and make more

Now that we have the tools and the abilities to do it at home

It's like the longer I sit on these songs the more I'm going to be writing more songs

And these songs aren't going to be relevant to my time and place in my life

But I actually I talk to, I'm not trying to big time anybody

But I was talking to somebody the other day

And I asked the question how many times you've gone back to a song

And been like you know what I'm going to do this one again

I want to start this one over

Have I?

Yeah

See that's the thing is like I come very firmly from like once it's done it's done let's move on

Because I feel like it's a time and a place thing too

I mean like literally we bought some nicer gear

We have bought some nicer gear just even since we recorded that song

Since we recorded Winning My Sale

And Kristen was like well maybe we could use that new microphone and go back and re-record the vocals

This was like a week ago

The song's already been sent to the distributor

It's already mastered and everything

She's like maybe we can go back and sing with the new microphone

And I was like no it's done

We all sat in a room and agreed, management agreed like it is done

It got mastered, it's already sent to the people

I was like we're not going to capture that magic again

Like of that song

You're not going to capture that moment that night when you were like sipping scotch

And you had the cat on your lap

And it was dark and it was stormy outside

And you were feeling like chill

And we're not going to capture that

It's going to be a different moment

It's not going to be that

I'm learning that about production too

It has taught me to write differently too

Because you realize that

And it has taught me how to record differently

Because you're like you have to capture a moment

Like if you don't capture that moment

You're just not as well be singing like a j-pop

You know what I mean?

And I get that

But I'm really interested in this idea

Because no one's ever done it

It is taking maybe an iconic album that they've

Let's say Radiohead

They take Kid A and they take every track

And then they just try to do them over again

Just do it again

Create a new moment with the same songs

Why has nobody ever thought about this yet?

Do you think that would be any better though?

I think it'd be interesting

It'd be different

What?

Yeah

Put it in podcast perspective

Are there any episodes you guys would go back and redo?

I don't even want to listen to it

That one at Songbirds for sure

Yeah I like to just once I'm like

Once something is like set and into motion

I like to move forward and like

I know but I guess the point is like

I want to create a new moment for you know Kid A

Now if it's all about a moment

I'll just take I'll take tracks one through four

And create a whole new moment with them

And see where it goes

I know that might be a terrible idea

But it sounds like I can't believe no one's ever even tried it

No they actually have

There have been several

I mean not to disagree

It's interesting because I can't remember who

I talked to an artist who redid one of her classic albums

Who?

I'll think of it

Oh you know what? Here's some

But she did it

She was she's now 20 something years older

So the songs that she recorded at 21

Now that she's had children, marriage

She redid them

They meant something entirely different to her

Alanis Morissette did that

She did Jagged Little Pill

Like as like more stripped down

She did the whole record front to back and re-released it

And you know and sold it at Starbucks

So that was kind of weird

She sold it while working at Starbucks

No it's like Alanis Morissette now like 20 years later

Singing acoustic Jagged Little Pill songs being sold at Starbucks

All the little subtleties of that are very odd to me

Just come at Starbucks can I get a

Beats you know and Jagged Little Pill

But also the fact that it's acoustic seems very strange

You ought to know acoustic seems like a very strange identity

But she did that

Yeah

What?

Man what?

Oh no I mean it's a

What are we yelling at?

What?

What are we going to yell?

What are we going to yell at?

Is Christian yelling at us?

I'm told to be I'm being told to be sweet

I think it's a very interesting idea

Like you said

That's all I think

It's very interesting

Boy if she's upset about you for not being sweet

She does not want me to start talking about the Taylor Swift album does she?

Yeah

She does not want to hear that

From the other room

She said she'll fight you

She's literally at community work right now

And she was like I will fight Brad over Taylor Swift

I like the new Taylor Swift album

What?

I like the new Taylor Swift album

Yeah don't get us started here

Don't come to our meeting in three months

It is

Literally Christian will go through an entire catalog of Taylor Swift songs before we get out of bed

I'll be in bed looking at my phone reading the news

And it'll be like the juxtaposition of like

The Democrats and Republicans couldn't agree again on something

She's in the background and she'll sing track three for a few minutes

And then she'll sing like track five

The other day I got her on film she didn't know

And she's singing to our dog

She's a cardigan to our dog

In bed just petting our dog

Did you even give her my theory about this album?

Or is this going to have to be another conversation that I have to explain myself as to why I think this album is total bullshit?

Brad I don't tell her anything you say

Okay thank God

Because I want to remain on good terms in my marriage

Okay good

To also remain friends with you

So I don't want to think that you say about Taylor Swift

Don't worry

We will talk about this offline

I think you're a secret closeted TS fan honestly

I like some of her stuff I really do

I think this album is a total scam job

I think it's a total scam job

I know her I know her management too well

It is a total scam job that she's trying to pull off right now

And she's got the money to pull it off

Well it's working

I think it's working

It is working she's got the money to make it work

Leave it there Christian's going to start talking

I know

Hey thank you for letting us release the song

I'm excited that we get to share it with the world

I'm excited to hear the new stuff

And thanks for keeping Indie Rock alive

In your barn in North Tennessee

Yes

Thank you all for being so kind to us and everything

And we wanted

Part of feeling very free about this music

And about just where our headspace and creative zone is

Is like we don't have any rules to this whole thing

Like screw it like we want you guys to play the song

We appreciate that you guys stick it

Because you know the crew have been very supportive

So we really appreciate that

And there'll be plenty more to come

Like we are very

Things are just moving

I feel like we're getting creative in this time

I don't know if it's like just all the shit that's going on in the world

But like it brings something out of you

If you're like sensitive to that stuff in the world

I think that good and bad

But I think it takes that kind of duality

To like help create the creativity moving

So we're feeling very creative

Good

That's exciting

You won't have to worry about quarantine songs from us

You won't get a single one

All right well

They're buying a camper soon

And taking a road trip around the country

So come on down and see it

All right

Yeah

We're looking forward now

Like literally we're supposed to hear back about a log cabin

On top of a trailer

That we're looking at

So who knows

I can't wait

I can't wait

I'm pulling up to Nola to come see you, Brad, in a log cabin

Bring it

I'm all in

I'm all in

All right

Thanks, buddy

Thanks Jared

Give her a best of Kristen

Bye

Love you guys

Love you

Thank you Jared

Jared, my man Jared from Repeat Repeat

Getting a little leaked audio from the new album

When Did My Sales The New Song?

I guess it's out August 28

It's fun

It's fun to break music, Barry

Is something on fire?

I just blew a candle out

I didn't

You like the ambiance?

August 28, that's my birthday

I get a new song from Repeat Repeat on my birthday

Do you know, you guys give me so much shit

About me making it all about me, about me, about me

Have I told you one time when my birthday is?

Have I even brought that up?

No, it's the only thing you haven't brought up

But I really, I hope Jared comes out of his shell at some point

You know, he seemed a little, little subdued today

He was a little kind of held back

Yeah, when the kid discovers coffee, we're really, we're screwed

We are totally screwed

What a great song though, and what a cool thing

What a cool thing for him to do that, for us

You know, it's very, look

There's a couple things that I don't like about this industry

And one of them are the artists

And he has been one of the very few that I've really, really taken a liking to

And we've become such good friends

Because everything that you see and everything that you hear is so unbelievably genuine

That part of it is just incredibly rare in all of this

It just doesn't happen very often

If you remember, Brad, when they came to Camp Nut Butter and we did the show

We decided that they were the yes couple

You know, you remember? Everything about them is yes

You know, will you be a guest? Yes

Will you do this? Yes

They actually played for the beer

I mean, guys, right, with the Roobus

I mean, they're just great people

And those are the kind of people I really want to succeed and break through in a very difficult, very difficult time

I can't even imagine how it has to work for what we were saying earlier

The venue people and the tour people and the crews and not just the artists

But I think this is

You think of artists and you think of musicians and you think of the ones that are massive

You think of the Taylor Swift and they're going to be fine

But the repeat, repeat level guys, it's hard to make a living right now

It was hard to make a living before

How to make a living now is just I can't even imagine how difficult that could be right now

I agree with what you're saying, but I think he sort of addressed that

And I kind of wanted to get into it a little bit deeper and maybe we will later

But what he said was taking advantage of this time to sort of reinvent not just themselves

But their music and how they do things

And I think I know I think that's key

I know, but as we've talked about before and I've said it to him

What happens when, you know, things start to normalize or somebody tries to then Taylor Swift is there too

Then everybody else then Frank Ocean will be there

And then who knows it's going to be an it's going to be a free for all of stuff being released

And it's going to drown so many out

Yeah, but he has an answer for that too

He's got that tattooing thing

He's setting himself up

I don't know how I miss the big amateur tattoo

Diversification

In my career

Diversification

Yeah, all right

I guess the only thing left to do now is thank the fine Patreons that stuck with us

Patreons, we love you

Barry Courter, take it away

Karen Sheets, Timothy Proctor, Aaron Carlson, Liesl Condor, David Grimes, Phil Hanley, Chloe Hannon, Benjamin Wells, Tori, Musical Antlers

I love that name

Mary T, Skyler, Melanie and Jesse Feldman, Parker Reed, Dan Sweeney who was with us earlier when we were recording some of this

Joshua Herndon, Lauren Edholm, Yeatman, Tyrone Baskett, Evan Brown, Ross McNamara, William Richards, Clay Wilhoyt, Sean McCarthy, Ryan Mathewson, Chelsea Davis, Lucy Young, Jason Hazelbaker, DK Linda Doles, Jacob Marty, Andrew T. McBride, Justin Negro, David Saleno, Catherine Riccio, Meredith Ritman, Daniel and Sharla Horton

Hey guys, Sean, David Henson, Brooke Tussie and Ella

Guys, thanks for joining us on the What Podcast for Laura Taco, Barry Courter, I'm proud to talk to you next time with Mitch Ryder, next episode of Mitch Ryder, that'll be a fun one on the What Podcast, talk to you later, love you bye